Shut up coz I'm right!

I commented on this on someone else's blog. I really think everyone is making a big deal over nothing. My policy regarding comments on my site is that I allow everything, including negative comments and points of view that differ from my own. Matt at Matt-Speak and I have had friendly and civil diagreements over politics and certain events, such as the dixie chicks famous one liner: "I'm ashamed that President Bush is from Texas."

The thing is though, if someone is being disrespectful or uses inappropriate language, I'll delete the comment. It's okay to call me an *sswipe, for example, and I may very well be an *sswipe. But I won't have non-constructive comments like that on my blog because my blog is a public expression of my thoughts and opinions, and it is read by small children, including my nieces and nephews, my employers, my colleagues, my friends, and hundreds or thousands of people I don't even know. Name-calling is something I don't engage in personally, and I don't need to expose my readers to it.

As for online forums versus social-networking sites, well, every site has a Terms of Service. I don't read them but I never have a problem with them because I always express myself in respectful ways, even when I passionately disagree with a point of view. The thing is though, it's the right of the site owner to set the rules, modify the rules, and to dictate what is appropriate and what is not appropriate, and everyone who participates on a site agrees to those rules when he or she first participates. If someone has a problem with those rules, than he or she should not participate.

A lot of criticisms have been made regarding the monetization of EntreCard, the ad pricing structure, the selling of credits. Well, who really cares? EntreCard is a blog promotion tool that you need to figure out how to make the best use of for your own purposes. It's great that it is offered to anyone for free. And you can't fault the site owners for wanting to make it profitable for themselves. If censoring comments or threads or posts is a tactic they need to employ to maintain the value of the site for their investors so that they can realize the monetary potential they hoped for when they started the site, that's their right.

Personally, I don't see a need for forums at all. If I have something to discuss, I prefer to do it one-on-one with other bloggers or in my own posts. The site is about bringing bloggers together and to help bloggers. I believe that. Participating in forums is always a mixed bag, but other than providing a learning environment about blogging, I can get that just as easily by contacting other bloggers directly through their comment section or email.

For example, I commented to you directly that your widget wasn't appearing. I commented to Zoe directly asking her if she would update my template. I just don't post specific questions in open forums because most of the time it's a lot easier going to the source.

There is a feedback form on everyone's dashboard. If you have issues with EntreCard, give them the feedback directly. There really isn't a good reason to air dirty laundry in a public forum and create flamestorms.

Since I don't visit forums usually, I don't know if this new forum you mentioned for firestorms will really serve the purpose it's intended for, but if it is meant for non-civil discussion, then you have to give the entrecard owners the benefit of the doubt that they're addressing an issue and providing an outlet for uncivil discussion. And if it allows them to keep other forums civil and productive and constructive, then it would appear that they have addressed the issue. It might not be the solution that you or I would choose, but it's the solution they chose because it's what they think is best for them and best for the site, and that is their right.

Personally, I have too many demands on my time to get involved in stuff like this. EntreCard is helping me promote my blog, I'm using it as a tool in ways that I think are best for me. And I've discovered other bloggers and blogs I never would have read otherwise, and I'm creating my own social-network blogging community in the sense that there are a number of blogs I return to over and over again and I'm getting to know the writers of these blogs, and they're getting to know me. I don't need an online forum to help me with that.

Cheers!

I could care less about the comment. My comment get edited, I never visit whoever did it, again.

As for my weblog? I NEVER edit comments, good, bad, profane, ranting.... I run a Christian genre blog, but I believe that leaving the ranting, raving, & profanity only reflects on the poster, and gives other users an overview of the offending posters character.

And as a Christian, I have heard profanity, rants & raves before, and will in the future. Why act is if they are taboo, or they do not exist...

Let our words speak for us, they can show both the good and the bad, irregardless of their content. What we see as a profane rant, when closely examined can be found to have a core point that we might agree with!

Dugg & Stumbled.

Let me just start by saying at Vivid Lamp we always publish people's comments. The only comments we do not display are those that leave very blantant spam comments.

I have left a comment on dotcom moguls' site, to express that I really take a stand when a post that was initially created to ask for people's point of views, gets altered. To find a few days later that the instigator of that thread edited their original post and then the admins/moderators of entrecard decided to delete the responses of "certain" people only - so that other people who have not seen the original thread, will never be able to form a proper opinion of why this has all come about - because the evidence of all the hostility has been tampered with! Why ask a question if you cannot accept an answer that differs from your own point of view?

Like I have said in this post, by editing people's opinions about a particular topic, you are devaluing and not respecting their views at all. It is misleading and dishonest.

The truth is that the owner of Entrecard, Graham Langdon, is a 21 year old kid who has apparently not got the common sense to allow a pro to run his network. Because of this, he is making a mess out of the whole thing.

Yesterday, accounts were deleted, threads deleted, and all for no valid reason. He treats it as though it is his personal sandbox, and when he gets annoyed, throws out the other players.

I think it very likely that Entrecard will go down in flames. It is not well run and that is an understatement.

Marie, I strongly agree with you and I also kind of agree with the Entrecard admins. I strongly believe that everyone should be allowed to voice out their concerns especially in a public forum like Entrecard's.

Why I kind of agree with EntreAdmins: I think the only mistake made by the Admins in the first places was that they didn't clarify the rules in the forums. They are partly to blame for this incident. They just let it happen and got out of hand. I regularly browse the forums looking for funny posts. Every once in a while I post on threads made by newbies asking for help and voice out my opinion regarding their concern. Sometimes I stumble upon posts by new users asking for help and they get mutilated by witty comments and end up being the laughing stock of the community. If it were me, I'd let it go and have a little fun in the threads but not everyone is not like me or us. In most cases those people who didn't find the community as friendly as they thought would be stopped posting. Maybe this is what pissed off Phirate in the first place. I mean we should be there to help the new ones not make fun of them. I'm not saying that funny comments should be banned. I'm just saying that there should be a level of responsibility among the old members. Posting offending comments about a blogger and his/her blog is somewhat unacceptable.

What the Admins did wrong: To simply put it, the issue could have been easily resolved by posting a thread telling members that it’s "BAD" to do that to other people. Of course, this will lead to protests and longer threads but a warning from the admins and the moderators would have been appropriate. They shouldn’t have deleted the posts and instead let the moderators handle it by talking to the concerned members. I mean the reason why the moderators have those golden things below their cards is to keep some sort of order in the forums. They should have properly used their right to voice out their own concerns in the forums, not overuse their right to delete threads. They have been communicating well with members when they are announcing events and having fun, why can’t they just tell members to behave a little, I’m sure the whole lot will listen to them.

They shouldn’t have created the Firestorm forum. Now I have to jump from Community forum to Firestorm just to see what’s up. I don’t like it at all. As I’ve said, it could have been resolved easily by nicely asking the “naughty” members to behave. Instead of letting the fire die a slow death, they just threw the fire into a room full of nitrous oxide. They just created a room where everyone can be as bad as they wanna be. Now, nobody wants to post in the community forum. No fun in it.

Like Philate, I have been working as a contractor on some small jobs for EC. I was amazed to find myself under attack in the forum by people with conduct issues.

Previously, I have been a security head for a major web site. We learned through long experience what works and what doesn't. Rant sandboxes have always failed, and this one will be an eyesore very soon, especially when prospective investors are looking.

This one did do one thing brilliantly: it lured the jerks right away, and now everyone knows who they are.

I have offered my findings on what works and what doesn't to management, and they will probably experiment until the problem is licked. Getting rid of a few rotten apples usually does the trick, but it is important to prosecute them as well, if they violate TOU. That's what we did, and we found schools eager to expel, employers eager to fire and prosecutors eager to press charges in each case we brought. The public hates internet criminals, and prosecutors know it. And bringing such cases costs almost nothing, especially if someone has been archiving key material -- as have I.

The person posting anonymously above is an idiot. He forgets that EntreCard belongs to Graham, and Graham can do whatever he pleases with it.

These trolls always forget that they are guests on other people's property. That's what makes them troublesome -- and that's what brings their downfall.

Firestorm is a huge mistake, I don't visit the forum all that often and as one of the other's have posted here, "rant sandboxes" ALWAYS FAIL and Graham's age and lack of professionalism shines through on this deal.

IMO, entrecard is like a private club. We all agree to Terms of Service and usage, but in the end it is up to the owners and investors to deem what is appropriate and what is not.

Your blog, your rules... their blog, theirs... As "unfair" as that may seem at times, that is what it is, and it is what makes our world such fun one... you never know what you are going to get....

Prayers.

Pisio

Here are a couple sites people might want to look into, my guess is that he will take the money and run as soon as he can.

www.milliondollarwiki.com
http://blog.milliondollarwiki.com/2007/05

You comment about how these "trolls" fail to realize that "they are guests on other people's property."

Don't you feel you are a part of that same subcommunity if you bait people, or in this case, speak out the way you have here? This isn't your site, you are merely a guest the same as anyone else.

The joy of life is that everyone has different perspectives and points of view regarding things. What you deem as "trolls" and flaming, other people may see as good natured ribbing and the flow of ideas.

The fact of the matter is, two people can stare at the exact same piece of fruit for hours and never come to anything resembling an agreement.

Just remember that if you are involved in a dispute, whether you think it is provoked by a troll or not, you are just as much in the mix as the other person. Ergo, as much as you want to call them a troll, can you really look in the mirror and say you wear the white hat? I seriously doubt it.

The forums there are a joke unless they are actually being serious which most are not. The firestorm forum is for the popular group like in high school....and the sheep that follow and agree with whatever they say. If you go in there and get pissy with the popular kid everyone gangs up on you. That is lame. Entrecard is for traffic generating to your site not "who's cool" and "who sucks". If they want that shit they can find another forum that thinks they are awesome.

I like the forum if they are actually educating and informing other than that I just go to a forum if I want to bullshit around and act like a clown.

Now that is the most hilariously sad bit of typing I've seen in my life. I'd love to see the attorney you'd present this case to laugh their ass off at you for even suggesting such an inane lawsuit. But hey scratin'... keep typing nonsense like this. There's no sense in just letting us assume your stupidity, keep typing garbage to prove it.

To be clear, I spend a lovely weekend with family and friends and still have NO idea what happened over the weekend. I'm sure it would be easy to find out for sure - bloggers are a communicative bunch to be sure. That being said, you can put me squarely in with the Firestorm crew. I was an active member in the 'community' section but only in the threads I enjoyed - which have all clearly moved to Firestorm. I briefly went into the old forum today (old habits die hard) and saw a freakin' tumbleweed blow by. As far as who is right and wrong - well, I don't know if I'm ignorant or apathetic, but I don't know and I don't care. I can tell you that the any value that Entrecard has is directly related to the members - not some fancy code or unique ideas. You piss people off, they move on. I'll be there as long as things are still fun and the friends I've made are there. Things start going down and I'll find other ways to keep in touch. These 'rotten apples' you refer to I suspect are the backbone of EC - at least as far as I'm concerned. The regulars who fill the bar stools when happy hour is over. This is by no means an attack on vividlamp, who, while I barely know I do count as one of those friends. I suspect that this post and the comments that follow are going to get a lot of attention over the next little while. Let me close with this final thought, yes - this is Graham's playground we are talking about and he has a right to do whatever he wants and post his rules, but if we don't like them - well, we can all just take our balls and go home. An empty playground ain't much fun.

PS - Dear Psh whatever, Yes - I did hang out in the pit and have sex in high school - and it was FANTASTIC! Jealous much? (wink)

You know you want me! :P

Since it takes forever with a slow connection to get around and drop and read blogs, I don't spend any time in the EC forums. I looked for answers to a problem once, after using the feedback form and getting no reponse whatsoever, but that was it. Let's just say I'm a bit unhappy getting no response to my sent feedback.

It would be great to actually "meet" and talk with everyone in one central place. But, I think the forum is much like Yahoo Groups - sooner or later, someone gets their panties in a bundle, the shit hits the fan, and the group fades away. Long lasting groups are the ones that state right out "no name calling" and "be respectful" and moderators curb whatever the members don't squash themselves.

To me, the bottom line is that it is never right to steal, misuse, manipulate, change, alter, whatever, someone's words. That is a no-no. If there is a worry about investors seeing it, then the best way to handle it is to state the 'rules' and handle an offender publicly. But that does not include changing or deleting! The best way to stay respectful is to remember to attack behavior, not the person. What the person did is stupid, but that person is not a stupid person. I may be preaching to the choir here, but you'd be surprised how many don't understand that basic idea.

This is the first time here, and I really like the idea of this blog. I hope you don't mind, but I'll be back!

I like how the blogs have sprung up explaining what went on but I still stay confused. I wish someone would make a timeline. ;)

Re VividLamps post: Well said. Bravo.

Re the Comments: I am a new EC member. I have made a lengthy comment [#65] at dotcommogul's place regarding my stand if anyone cares. No one does. ;)

This is fun drama. But the namecalling of the mods and insulting the owner - offsite or not - is poor form. Criticize, critique, offer opinions, and go apeshit but belittling the efforts of otherwise honest, newbie, beginners, or naive people who have an otherwise solid idea is really not helpful. I liken it to making fun of a baby and belittling her because she can't walk yet. WTF?

Oh and someone said 'rant sandboxes' never succeed? That is emphatically not true - like it matters. But I wanted to clear that up. For the overtly hostile and flame war types it's a good idea. It's also where mods can move inflammatory posts without censoring people. I think maybe what happened in this case with EC, however, is that a crybaby cried foul over disagreement and Cats was moved too quickly into an area that was *invented* last minute with - probably - an unclear purpose.

Mistakes with management are going to happen. I think giving them a break from time to time or helping them to do better from those who know how to do better is called for.

I came back to the Entrecard forums after more than two weeks of absence due to real-life commitments and I read references to things I can't understand. Thank you for this post (for the comments, really), I now have some vague idea :)

@Crista: Why settle for Stormin' Norman when someone could be very well near? :)

You're right, the birth of the "Firestorm" forum was a bad idea. Never, ever give air to the flame that's already raging and that's what the EC Admins did.

Again, you're also right. They shouldn't edit posts and comments unless it's to make it relevant. If it's nasty, then leave it. But another point was also mentioned that when people join, they do agree to the TOU.

In terms of blog comments and whatnot, it's better to leave the comments there, unless it's completely irrelevant or is SPAM.

I think this whole mess is ridiculous and we're mostly grown adults, so why do people need to act this way? I can't understand it.